Difference between revisions of "Talk:Staff of Nicator"
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I believed it would enrich the Staff powers page to list the powers previous holders have had, rather than keep it as "unknown". The Staff of Nicator is one of the most important artifacts in Achaea's history and at the centre of much of it. The usual 'cool' factor about it was the powers one would gain while wielding the staff, from historical NPCs to actual players. I thought it would make for an interesting additional to Achaea's lore to list the powers. The powers of Staff holders are often discussed in the game and become rather universal. It is how Farrah received her moniker of "Undying Farrah" at the time. If Imyrr's power was wrong, then that's fine, we can leave it blank. I have no real horse in this one, I simply thought it would enrich the page as well I didnt see it breaking any policy, thus the deletion seemed rather extreme. -- [[Asmodron]], {{CURRENTTIME}}, 05 June 2024. | I believed it would enrich the Staff powers page to list the powers previous holders have had, rather than keep it as "unknown". The Staff of Nicator is one of the most important artifacts in Achaea's history and at the centre of much of it. The usual 'cool' factor about it was the powers one would gain while wielding the staff, from historical NPCs to actual players. I thought it would make for an interesting additional to Achaea's lore to list the powers. The powers of Staff holders are often discussed in the game and become rather universal. It is how Farrah received her moniker of "Undying Farrah" at the time. If Imyrr's power was wrong, then that's fine, we can leave it blank. I have no real horse in this one, I simply thought it would enrich the page as well I didnt see it breaking any policy, thus the deletion seemed rather extreme. -- [[Asmodron]], {{CURRENTTIME}}, 05 June 2024. | ||
Imyrr beat us to the punch, and I actually think the table split to differentiate between modern player bearers and Seleucar bearers is a good one. I can't agree that staff powers should be listed for players. The more we add to the Wiki, the less people have to go in-game to learn. There should be a balance between accuracy and breadth, and minimalism/vagueness, which is both my personal opinion and the stated guidelines/purpose of the Wiki. Additionally, each Staff has multiple unique powers, not just the big ones you listed, and there's also no way of verifying that the correct power has been added without the Staff Holder to confirm as the Garden NEVER confirms nor denies powers past or present. A player has no way of figuring out Staff Powers without going and talking to people, unlike with something like auctions where there are news posts and syntax to check winners independently. If there is something cool that you want to preserve like a moniker, that can and should be preserved in-game in some fashion rather than here. --[[Eoka]], 22:41, 05 June 2024 (GMT) | |||
Imyrr's change is acceptable. It removes the factor of representing lacking information with "unknown" repeated next to each name, and simply lists the winners as they are for each year. As you stated it is your personal opinion that staff powers not be listed, however it is not against Wiki guidelines. Much on the wiki is information that can only be gotten in-game, and some of it only by communicating with players that were there at the time. Many players come to the wiki to search up a quick reference, which is simply just a fact of game life. If we go down the slippery slope of "If they cant find this immediately in the game, then it shouldnt be here", then we will have to delete dozens of pages or references in pages on this wiki. To note, the guideline states: | |||
"Please do not share quests, skills information, or anything that should reasonably stay private". | |||
The concept of staff powers staying 'reasonably private' is definitely off the table in that scenario. The powers are based on being impactful and game-changing in their involvement. It was thus reasonable to list them based purely on their impact in the game and lore. That said I agree that information on it may not always be accurate simply based on it being known by individuals, though it could be debated that several other aspects of Achaea's lore is of the same idea but we simply edit it as it comes along. The table is adjusted now anyway, so this line of discussion is mute. -- [[Asmodron]], {{CURRENTTIME}}, 05 June 2024. | |||
I agree, judging pages with the view of "if you cannot find it immediately then it should not be here" is not a good plan. It's also not a plan I was suggesting or endorsing, so let me clarify further. Staff Powers, upon release, are secret. Full stop. It is only through direct conflict with the bearer that the powers may be (are not guaranteed to be) revealed to those they themselves do not directly share with friends or trusted allies. I agree the point is moot and I am satisfied to leave it here and let the current table stand as-is. Also, as a totally unrelated note, using the CURRENTTIME syntax in your signature means that every edit made to the page will also change the time to whenever the most recent poster hits 'save changes', so probably best to just manually record the time, even if it's a bit more inconvenient. --[[Eoka]], 00:49, 06 June 2024 (GMT) | |||
Latest revision as of 00:49, 6 June 2024
Please take this opportunity to directly cite whatever policy you think is being violated, Asmodron. I will take the opportunity to once again cite the disclaimer listed below every single post on the AchaeaWiki: "Please note that all contributions to AchaeaWiki may be edited, altered, or removed by other contributors. If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly, then do not submit it here." I also direct you to the AchaeaWiki:Contributing Guidelines where you will find no protections given for "not being able to delete things without the express approval of the administration". The administration provides LIMITED oversight to "protected" pages, which neither of these are. And finally, I remind you that the power you listed for Imyrr is WRONG. Not debatable, WRONG. So beyond all powers being something that should be left to be discussed and discovered in-game given their inherently secret nature, your addition was factually incorrect. --Eoka, 12:57, 05 June 2024, (GMT)
As the majority of this has already been addressed in the Lucretian Athenaeum discussion, i'll move on to the other points.
I believed it would enrich the Staff powers page to list the powers previous holders have had, rather than keep it as "unknown". The Staff of Nicator is one of the most important artifacts in Achaea's history and at the centre of much of it. The usual 'cool' factor about it was the powers one would gain while wielding the staff, from historical NPCs to actual players. I thought it would make for an interesting additional to Achaea's lore to list the powers. The powers of Staff holders are often discussed in the game and become rather universal. It is how Farrah received her moniker of "Undying Farrah" at the time. If Imyrr's power was wrong, then that's fine, we can leave it blank. I have no real horse in this one, I simply thought it would enrich the page as well I didnt see it breaking any policy, thus the deletion seemed rather extreme. -- Asmodron, 22:40, 05 June 2024.
Imyrr beat us to the punch, and I actually think the table split to differentiate between modern player bearers and Seleucar bearers is a good one. I can't agree that staff powers should be listed for players. The more we add to the Wiki, the less people have to go in-game to learn. There should be a balance between accuracy and breadth, and minimalism/vagueness, which is both my personal opinion and the stated guidelines/purpose of the Wiki. Additionally, each Staff has multiple unique powers, not just the big ones you listed, and there's also no way of verifying that the correct power has been added without the Staff Holder to confirm as the Garden NEVER confirms nor denies powers past or present. A player has no way of figuring out Staff Powers without going and talking to people, unlike with something like auctions where there are news posts and syntax to check winners independently. If there is something cool that you want to preserve like a moniker, that can and should be preserved in-game in some fashion rather than here. --Eoka, 22:41, 05 June 2024 (GMT)
Imyrr's change is acceptable. It removes the factor of representing lacking information with "unknown" repeated next to each name, and simply lists the winners as they are for each year. As you stated it is your personal opinion that staff powers not be listed, however it is not against Wiki guidelines. Much on the wiki is information that can only be gotten in-game, and some of it only by communicating with players that were there at the time. Many players come to the wiki to search up a quick reference, which is simply just a fact of game life. If we go down the slippery slope of "If they cant find this immediately in the game, then it shouldnt be here", then we will have to delete dozens of pages or references in pages on this wiki. To note, the guideline states:
"Please do not share quests, skills information, or anything that should reasonably stay private".
The concept of staff powers staying 'reasonably private' is definitely off the table in that scenario. The powers are based on being impactful and game-changing in their involvement. It was thus reasonable to list them based purely on their impact in the game and lore. That said I agree that information on it may not always be accurate simply based on it being known by individuals, though it could be debated that several other aspects of Achaea's lore is of the same idea but we simply edit it as it comes along. The table is adjusted now anyway, so this line of discussion is mute. -- Asmodron, 22:40, 05 June 2024.
I agree, judging pages with the view of "if you cannot find it immediately then it should not be here" is not a good plan. It's also not a plan I was suggesting or endorsing, so let me clarify further. Staff Powers, upon release, are secret. Full stop. It is only through direct conflict with the bearer that the powers may be (are not guaranteed to be) revealed to those they themselves do not directly share with friends or trusted allies. I agree the point is moot and I am satisfied to leave it here and let the current table stand as-is. Also, as a totally unrelated note, using the CURRENTTIME syntax in your signature means that every edit made to the page will also change the time to whenever the most recent poster hits 'save changes', so probably best to just manually record the time, even if it's a bit more inconvenient. --Eoka, 00:49, 06 June 2024 (GMT)