Talk:Ilyrean Caverns

Hmm, do you think the article(s) should be "Ilyrean Isle(s) (the plural of which would include Suliel Island)," "Ilyrean Caverns," or both? --Krypton 04:34, 20 October 2007 (GMT)

Hm, it might be more technically correct to make three seperate entries: an "Ilyrean Caverns" article, a "Suliel Island" article, and an "Ilyrean Isles" category (which would talk about general approx. location, the third unnamed isle, etc.) Asara 16:03, 20 October 2007 (GMT)

The Ilyrean Caverns and Ilyrean Tundra can be consolidated into "Ilyrean Isle" (with redirects as appropriate), while "Suliel Island" and "Ilyrean Isles" (of which there are five or six) should have their own articles. An Ilyrean Isles category seems unnecessary, but isn't a big issue. Delphinus @ 12:39, 22 October 2007 (GMT)

Hm, I disagree. Suliel Island and the Ilyrean Caverns are islands within a larger chain/group, together called the Ilyrean Isles. (Thus Suliel Island would be categorized as a part of the Ilyrean Isles, which it is.) "Ilyrean Caverns" and "Ilyrean Isle" (the chain's namesake) are both the same place, so it doesn't matter to me which we use as the article title. (The former is the official HELP scroll title, while the name "Ilyrean Isle" is used in both the achaea.com frontpage news column as well as Events post #254.) "Ilyrean Tundra" would redirect to this. Asara 18:05, 22 October 2007 (GMT)

Unfortunately, it also surveys as "Ilyrean Caves" (not "Caverns") when indoors, so that is one more option that has to be under consideration. --Krypton 23:14, 22 October 2007 (GMT)

The Pachacacha and Zaphar Rivers are subdivided into separate sections as well, but that doesn't really mean anything. Quite honestly, there's not enough about the Ilyrean Tundra to even assemble into a real article. Also: I wouldn't trust the help file. The file's title is "Ilyrean Caverns," but helpsearch reveals that "ilyrean" is the name of the file itself. And although HELP ILYREAN TUNDRA and HELP ILYREAN redirect to the help file, HELP ILYREAN CAVERNS (the displayed title) and HELP ILYREAN ISLE don't. I would err on the side of the events post and website in this case. I'm of the opinion that the area is subdivided to prevent easy brazier/prism escapes when the caverns seal themselves off, though of course that's unsubstantiated.

With regards to categorisation: it isn't a big issue to me, given that there are five, six, or more islands in the chain (though only two are named), which contrasts with the paltry two Ulangi Isles. Thing is, I really want to get away from making categories into actual articles; categorising them is fine, but linking to the category as though an article seems like bad wiki form. -Delphinus @ 13:17, 24 October 2007 (GMT)

Personally, I'd rather see an Ilyrean Tundra article for the combined Tundra and Caverns, and an Ilyrean Isles article for the island chain. Just makes the most sense to me: the cave is in the tundra, but the tundra isn't in the cave. The Ilyrean Isles page can reference the two names Ilyrean isles and whatever else we know about them in general. ~Soludra 06:46, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Here are my main concerns.

• The caverns aren't in the Ilyrean Tundra, though. They're underneath it. You can access sea caves as well, so you could easily say the caverns are in the Borean Ocean.
• I feel as though this is too weirdly constrained by area names. The "Ulangi" area no longer exists since it surveys as the "Ulangi Isles" now, but we still know what Ulangi is and we know it's a valid article. Similarly, we don't create articles for the "Eastern Pachacacha River" or "Southern Zaphar River."
• The help file, though titled "Ilyrean Caverns," makes no reference to anything else by name save "the tundra island of Ilyrean." It has opportunities to reference the "Ilyrean Tundra" and does not within the body of the file itself. You'll notice the file name is simply "HELP ILYREAN", and every other name for the file is sketchy at best. Ilyrean seems to be the main point, downplayed as the individual areas are, and so "Ilyrean Isle" (the fullest proper name with precedence) is the best solution.
• The area names are unreliable anyway (the discrepancy between "Ilyrean Caverns" and "Ilyrean Caves," errata in help file indexing, etc) and we should err on the side of news reports.
• They just don't form full articles on their own. I prefer full-length, detail-packed articles to long lists of blurbs. -Delphinus @ 16:20, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Back to level 1 indenting! I have to agree with you here. I guess perhaps Ilyrean Isle and Ilyrean Isles, might work, with hatnotes referring each to the other? ~Soludra 19:41, 29 January 2009 (UTC)